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PhilT
Guest
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
 |
|
I’ve been with Virgin/Telewest for a number of years without any
technical problems (administration has gone down though).
I recently noticed that I’m losing some connections … here’s the
details …
My 2M Internet connection has been trouble free until the middle of
May (17th-24th). when I went on holiday. The modem got powered off for
7 days.
After the holiday I noticed that I could only maintain VPN,
NetSupport, RemoteDesktop (and a few private apps) connections for one
hour before the TCP socket got broken. Some of these links have been
initiated from my home PC to an office PC, and visa-versa. The office
PC’s are on a BT line (via Demon) and have not had any problems to
other networks.
Initially these breaks were on the hour – too accurate to be a
coincidence. More recently I have noticed that 75% of the time it
breaks on the hour and 25% of the time is breaks after one hour of
connection.
I had upgraded firmware in my router just after the holiday but
eliminated that by reverting back and also bypassing it and connecting
the PC directly to the modem.
I contacted Virgin and allowed them time to respond and they simply
said they don’t support VPN connections. Not a useful answer but
probably first line support do not always have the answers (or the
time to go looking for them).
Browsing the web does not show any problems as the browser handles
disconnects. I haven’t tried any secure web pages during the
‘expected’ disconnect times so I don’t know if they would break.
After much googling, I can’t find any clues.
My only thought is that it’s related to the new bandwidth throttling
policy – i.e. drop the bandwidth to 50% for one hour. My usage is
typically less than 10% of any of their limits so I shouldn’t be
suffering.
I thought that they might have timers on their switching circuits that
reset lines every hour. So, anyone going over their usage limits would
be tagged for a lower speed and then, at the next hour, their line
drops. One hour later it all gets reset and they’re back to normal.
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation? |
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Steve Rumsby
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
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| Quote: |
At the moment i can't send email via virgin adsl. Error is as below.
An unknown error has occurred. End-of-data rejected: ip has temporarily
exceeded the allowed mail recipient relays per day', Port: 25, Secure(SSL):
No, Server Error: 451, Error Number: 0x800CCC6A
Can recieve but not send....
Same here. Started last night and is still happening this morning. So |
it isn't just you...
Steve. |
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Vipera berus
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
PhilT wrote:
| Quote: |
I’ve been with Virgin/Telewest for a number of years without any
technical problems (administration has gone down though).
I recently noticed that I’m losing some connections … here’s the
details …
|
At the moment i can't send email via virgin adsl. Error is as below.
An unknown error has occurred. End-of-data rejected: ip has temporarily
exceeded the allowed mail recipient relays per day', Port: 25, Secure(SSL):
No, Server Error: 451, Error Number: 0x800CCC6A
Can recieve but not send....
Thought i'd been zombied when i first saw it.... but all checks out this
end.
More virgin b*ll*cks |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
| Quote: |
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
|
There are a number of utilities that will repetitively ping
IP addresses at preset intervals and report no reply.
Set to once a minute or whatever.
AFAIR some traceroute utilities have this function so
you can see where the connection attempt stops,
within Virgins network, or after you leave it.
Support is generally script driven, so most of
us have to learn how to pinpoint the problem,
then tell our ISP what's broken.
I'd look at DHCP lease time, like is it
set to 1 hour?
If the PC renews the lease before it expires
its IP addsress should remain the same, if
it doesn't try to renew it may get a different
IP address. Renewal is generally automatic.
Or to bypass all this just allocate you PC a
static IP address, gateway address, and DNS
servers, AKA a static configuration.
Solved a lot of my problems.
Also helps if you have a marginal wireless
connection.
DNS server is often the same as the gateway
(your routers) address. |
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PhilT
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
On 11 Jul, 12:31, ato_...@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
There are a number of utilities that will repetitively ping
IP addresses at preset intervals and report no reply.
Set to once a minute or whatever.
AFAIR some traceroute utilities have this function so
you can see where the connection attempt stops,
within Virgins network, or after you leave it.
Support is generally script driven, so most of
us have to learn how to pinpoint the problem,
then tell our ISP what's broken.
I'd look at DHCP lease time, like is it
set to 1 hour?
If the PC renews the lease before it expires
its IP addsress should remain the same, if
it doesn't try to renew it may get a different
IP address. Renewal is generally automatic.
Or to bypass all this just allocate you PC a
static IP address, gateway address, and DNS
servers, AKA a static configuration.
Solved a lot of my problems.
Also helps if you have a marginal wireless
connection.
DNS server is often the same as the gateway
(your routers) address.
|
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
Ping is no good as a test as ICMP packets will retry.
UDP packets don't suffer either as they are not guarenteed anyway.
It's only TCP traffic and so far I can't find any test applications to
run over the LAN and WAN.
I'm going to write my own app to open TCP connections and monitor the
'reason' for disconnects.
If it's a controlled disconnect then it's the application being closed
via proper IP management.
If Virgin are switching circuits, I should get some kind of forced
disconnect and then maybe I can quote that info back to Virgin. I
suspect, however, that this would require 2nd or 3rd line support to
actually understand the issue. |
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Klunk
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:31:38 -0700, PhilT passed an empty day by writing:
| Quote: |
On 11 Jul, 12:31, ato_...@hotmail.com wrote:
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
There are a number of utilities that will repetitively ping IP
addresses at preset intervals and report no reply. Set to once a minute
or whatever.
AFAIR some traceroute utilities have this function so you can see where
the connection attempt stops, within Virgins network, or after you
leave it. Support is generally script driven, so most of us have to
learn how to pinpoint the problem, then tell our ISP what's broken.
I'd look at DHCP lease time, like is it set to 1 hour?
If the PC renews the lease before it expires its IP addsress should
remain the same, if it doesn't try to renew it may get a different IP
address. Renewal is generally automatic. Or to bypass all this just
allocate you PC a static IP address, gateway address, and DNS servers,
AKA a static configuration.
Solved a lot of my problems.
Also helps if you have a marginal wireless connection.
DNS server is often the same as the gateway (your routers) address.
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
Ping is no good as a test as ICMP packets will retry. UDP packets don't
suffer either as they are not guarenteed anyway. It's only TCP traffic
and so far I can't find any test applications to run over the LAN and
WAN.
I'm going to write my own app to open TCP connections and monitor the
'reason' for disconnects.
If it's a controlled disconnect then it's the application being closed
via proper IP management.
If Virgin are switching circuits, I should get some kind of forced
disconnect and then maybe I can quote that info back to Virgin. I
suspect, however, that this would require 2nd or 3rd line support to
actually understand the issue.
|
You make the assumption that they actually care. The only time they are
keen to speak to you is if you owe them money.
--
begin oefixed_in_2005.exe |
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Woody
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
"PhilT" <google@green-pig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f14b9f94-326b-4808-a316-12c10ec26262@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
I’ve been with Virgin/Telewest for a number of years without any
technical problems (administration has gone down though).
I recently noticed that I’m losing some connections … here’s the
details …
My 2M Internet connection has been trouble free until the middle of
May (17th-24th). when I went on holiday. The modem got powered off for
7 days.
After the holiday I noticed that I could only maintain VPN,
NetSupport, RemoteDesktop (and a few private apps) connections for one
hour before the TCP socket got broken. Some of these links have been
initiated from my home PC to an office PC, and visa-versa. The office
PC’s are on a BT line (via Demon) and have not had any problems to
other networks.
Initially these breaks were on the hour – too accurate to be a
coincidence. More recently I have noticed that 75% of the time it
breaks on the hour and 25% of the time is breaks after one hour of
connection.
I had upgraded firmware in my router just after the holiday but
eliminated that by reverting back and also bypassing it and connecting
the PC directly to the modem.
I contacted Virgin and allowed them time to respond and they simply
said they don’t support VPN connections. Not a useful answer but
probably first line support do not always have the answers (or the
time to go looking for them).
Browsing the web does not show any problems as the browser handles
disconnects. I haven’t tried any secure web pages during the
‘expected’ disconnect times so I don’t know if they would break.
After much googling, I can’t find any clues.
My only thought is that it’s related to the new bandwidth throttling
policy – i.e. drop the bandwidth to 50% for one hour. My usage is
typically less than 10% of any of their limits so I shouldn’t be
suffering.
I thought that they might have timers on their switching circuits that
reset lines every hour. So, anyone going over their usage limits would
be tagged for a lower speed and then, at the next hour, their line
drops. One hour later it all gets reset and they’re back to normal.
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
Why in heaven's name did you switch the modem off? They only take a few
watts and are unlikely to be a fire risk.
The asence of the modem when they pinged it occasionally could well be
the root of your rpoblem.
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
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Graham J
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
"Klunk" <bill.gates@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4877922f$0$2920$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
| Quote: |
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:31:38 -0700, PhilT passed an empty day by writing:
On 11 Jul, 12:31, ato_...@hotmail.com wrote:
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
There are a number of utilities that will repetitively ping IP
addresses at preset intervals and report no reply. Set to once a minute
or whatever.
AFAIR some traceroute utilities have this function so you can see where
the connection attempt stops, within Virgins network, or after you
leave it. Support is generally script driven, so most of us have to
learn how to pinpoint the problem, then tell our ISP what's broken.
I'd look at DHCP lease time, like is it set to 1 hour?
If the PC renews the lease before it expires its IP addsress should
remain the same, if it doesn't try to renew it may get a different IP
address. Renewal is generally automatic. Or to bypass all this just
allocate you PC a static IP address, gateway address, and DNS servers,
AKA a static configuration.
Solved a lot of my problems.
Also helps if you have a marginal wireless connection.
DNS server is often the same as the gateway (your routers) address.
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
Ping is no good as a test as ICMP packets will retry. UDP packets don't
suffer either as they are not guarenteed anyway. It's only TCP traffic
and so far I can't find any test applications to run over the LAN and
WAN.
I'm going to write my own app to open TCP connections and monitor the
'reason' for disconnects.
If it's a controlled disconnect then it's the application being closed
via proper IP management.
If Virgin are switching circuits, I should get some kind of forced
disconnect and then maybe I can quote that info back to Virgin. I
suspect, however, that this would require 2nd or 3rd line support to
actually understand the issue.
You make the assumption that they actually care. The only time they are
keen to speak to you is if you owe them money.
|
If you changed to a technically competent ISP you would stand some chance of
a sympathetic hearing here ...
--
Graham J |
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Jim Howes
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
PhilT wrote:
| Quote: |
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
|
Static in what sense?
Your NNTP Posting Host header from the message to which this is a reply
was 82.37.220.37. The RIPE whois information for that address suggests
that it is a pooled address space for use by cable customers
(ex-blueyonder) and allocated dynamically to those users.
How so?
82.37.220.37 is listed on the Spamhaus PBL (Policy block list) as an
address that should not be sending direct-to-MX unauthenticated mail
(usually because it's a dynamic IP) (No, this doesn't mean you're a spammer)
SORBS thinks it's dynamic
It has no (useful) rDNS
While RIPE doesn't actually say outright that it's dynamic IP space,
you'll have a hard time convincing me, or the rest of the internet, of that.
Perhaps some kind of IP shuffling is going on, perhaps as some dumb
attempt to annoy high-traffic users. Who knows what bizzare schemes
they may have. However, when all is said and done, they do have the
right to shuffle that IP space as much as they like, it is their space
after all. If you don't like it, get your own space, and set up routes
to it.
I find it very hard to believe that the endpoint of the VPN connection
as seen from outside terminates at an IP address assigned to an
interface on your machine, on your local network, instead of a forwarded
port on your router.
TCP won't break if the endpoints don't move, but virgin decide to route
all packets via Turkmenistan at the top of the hour for some insane
(could it be otherwise?) reason - That's a routing issue, and happens
at a lower layer in the networking stack.
| Quote: |
Ping is no good as a test as ICMP packets will retry.
They are also independent of one another, so a change in IP address |
won't even be noticed by the local machine.
| Quote: |
UDP packets don't suffer either as they are not guarenteed anyway.
|
UDP packets are unlikely to suffer as UDP is a connectionless protocol,
and you can't break a non-existant connection, whereas TCP is a
connection-oriented, sequenced, end-to-end protocol that will break if
one end mysteriously moves from one IP address to another. |
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Alex Fraser
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
PhilT wrote:
[snip]
| Quote: |
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
|
What about the DHCP client on the router - is the address being renewed
correctly? What is the lease time? Is the cable-side IP address changing?
[snip]
| Quote: |
I'm going to write my own app to open TCP connections and monitor the
'reason' for disconnects.
|
FWIW, you really need to look at how it appears from /both/ ends of the
connection.
Alex |
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Mark McIntyre
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
Jim Howes wrote:
| Quote: |
PhilT wrote:
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
Static in what sense?
|
I should imagine the key phrase is "on all my home lan"...
| Quote: |
Your NNTP Posting Host header from the message to which this is a reply
was 82.37.220.37. The RIPE whois information for that address suggests
that it is a pooled address space for use by cable customers
(ex-blueyonder) and allocated dynamically to those users.
How so?
|
He's a Virginmedia customer.... that would be his public address.
| Quote: |
82.37.220.37 is listed on the Spamhaus PBL (Policy block list)
|
Yup -most of VM's dynamic IPs are in DUL RBLs. You need to send email
via VM's soi-disant 'smarthost'.
| Quote: |
Perhaps some kind of IP shuffling is going on, perhaps as some dumb
attempt to annoy high-traffic users. Who knows what bizzare schemes
they may have.
|
They don't do any of this. The most likely problem the OP is facing is
either poor S/N levels on his line, or a dodgy modem power supply. Both
can cause the modem to lose sync. |
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Peter Withey
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:39:37 +0100, "Woody"
<harrogate3@ntlworld.spam.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"PhilT" <google@green-pig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f14b9f94-326b-4808-a316-12c10ec26262@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
I’ve been with Virgin/Telewest for a number of years without any
technical problems (administration has gone down though).
I recently noticed that I’m losing some connections … here’s the
details …
I
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
|
To which Woody replied.
| Quote: |
Why in heaven's name did you switch the modem off? They only take a few
watts and are unlikely to be a fire risk.
The asence of the modem when they pinged it occasionally could well be
the root of your rpoblem.
|
Probably not. Mine was switched off for two months while I was away in
Oz. All worked perfectly when I got back.
Pete. |
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Paul P
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
"Graham J" <graham@nospam.zen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4877ca3d$0$26076$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"Klunk" <bill.gates@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4877922f$0$2920$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:31:38 -0700, PhilT passed an empty day by writing:
On 11 Jul, 12:31, ato_...@hotmail.com wrote:
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
There are a number of utilities that will repetitively ping IP
addresses at preset intervals and report no reply. Set to once a minute
or whatever.
AFAIR some traceroute utilities have this function so you can see where
the connection attempt stops, within Virgins network, or after you
leave it. Support is generally script driven, so most of us have to
learn how to pinpoint the problem, then tell our ISP what's broken.
I'd look at DHCP lease time, like is it set to 1 hour?
If the PC renews the lease before it expires its IP addsress should
remain the same, if it doesn't try to renew it may get a different IP
address. Renewal is generally automatic. Or to bypass all this just
allocate you PC a static IP address, gateway address, and DNS servers,
AKA a static configuration.
Solved a lot of my problems.
Also helps if you have a marginal wireless connection.
DNS server is often the same as the gateway (your routers) address.
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
Ping is no good as a test as ICMP packets will retry. UDP packets don't
suffer either as they are not guarenteed anyway. It's only TCP traffic
and so far I can't find any test applications to run over the LAN and
WAN.
I'm going to write my own app to open TCP connections and monitor the
'reason' for disconnects.
If it's a controlled disconnect then it's the application being closed
via proper IP management.
If Virgin are switching circuits, I should get some kind of forced
disconnect and then maybe I can quote that info back to Virgin. I
suspect, however, that this would require 2nd or 3rd line support to
actually understand the issue.
You make the assumption that they actually care. The only time they are
keen to speak to you is if you owe them money.
If you changed to a technically competent ISP you would stand some chance
of a sympathetic hearing here ...
--
Graham J
Would you care to name one? I don't know of any. |
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Paul P
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
"PhilT" <google@green-pig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f14b9f94-326b-4808-a316-12c10ec26262@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
I’ve been with Virgin/Telewest for a number of years without any
technical problems (administration has gone down though).
I recently noticed that I’m losing some connections … here’s the
details …
It might be to do with the data centre that was broken in to last Wednesday.
Equipment was stolen and what was left was vandalised. I had an email in
work about it as our whole network went through one particular data centre.
It affected a few ISPs. |
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Klunk
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Virgin Media Internet circuits switching every hour |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:04:19 +0100, Paul P passed an empty day by writing:
| Quote: |
"Graham J" <graham@nospam.zen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4877ca3d$0$26076$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
"Klunk" <bill.gates@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4877922f$0$2920$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:31:38 -0700, PhilT passed an empty day by
writing:
On 11 Jul, 12:31, ato_...@hotmail.com wrote:
Anyone else noticed this or can you provide an explanation?
There are a number of utilities that will repetitively ping IP
addresses at preset intervals and report no reply. Set to once a
minute or whatever.
AFAIR some traceroute utilities have this function so you can see
where the connection attempt stops, within Virgins network, or after
you leave it. Support is generally script driven, so most of us have
to learn how to pinpoint the problem, then tell our ISP what's
broken. I'd look at DHCP lease time, like is it set to 1 hour? If
the PC renews the lease before it expires its IP addsress should
remain the same, if it doesn't try to renew it may get a different
IP address. Renewal is generally automatic. Or to bypass all this
just allocate you PC a static IP address, gateway address, and DNS
servers, AKA a static configuration.
Solved a lot of my problems.
Also helps if you have a marginal wireless connection. DNS server is
often the same as the gateway (your routers) address.
I have static IP addresses on all my home LAN so it's not DHCP lease
time.
Ping is no good as a test as ICMP packets will retry. UDP packets
don't suffer either as they are not guarenteed anyway. It's only TCP
traffic and so far I can't find any test applications to run over the
LAN and WAN.
I'm going to write my own app to open TCP connections and monitor the
'reason' for disconnects.
If it's a controlled disconnect then it's the application being
closed via proper IP management.
If Virgin are switching circuits, I should get some kind of forced
disconnect and then maybe I can quote that info back to Virgin. I
suspect, however, that this would require 2nd or 3rd line support to
actually understand the issue.
You make the assumption that they actually care. The only time they
are keen to speak to you is if you owe them money.
If you changed to a technically competent ISP you would stand some
chance of a sympathetic hearing here ...
--
Graham J
Would you care to name one? I don't know of any.
|
ZEN are about 95% OK
--
begin oefixed_in_2005.exe |
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